Championship Structure

[BFisch06]

...I understand PAX is a system that allows all classes to be compared and compete on equal playing field ...
As for the rest, it seems this is a case of if it isn't broke don't fix it.

I'm leaning more towards the "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" side myself. I feel the PAX class this past year allowed those who want more competition to have it - regardless of their base classes (myself as a prime example). I personally have no problem being the only car in my class - I use the PAX index to judge my times and have fun with or without in-class competition. I'm not committed to autocross enough to buy a car because it is the best in that class or is less expensive to build to the edge of the rules. I tried the PAX thing and came in third this past year. It was fun, it was harrowing, it was rewarding, and it was disappointing. Great experience, but as stated earlier it's "calculator racing" and it turns out it isn't for me.

As Tim pointed out, I feel the BRR has more "come for the fun" participants compared to those who want to want fierce competition. We addressed the lack of competition by offering the PAX class and it was well received, though it sometimes made run groups interesting to figure out. At the same time, we retained end-of-year trophies for all SCCA classes. If you want a participation trophy, you got it! If you want competition, you got it! I doubt that we'll be able to find a better solution that what we have now. SCCA boils down to calculator racing and I'm not sure we can overcome that.

[tehmaxfactr]

I’m not a fan of calculator racing, but the popularity of PAX class this year says that I might be in the minority on that point.

lol I think I am the minority here. It seems I am the only one in favor for this. No one likes racing the calculator. Honestly if E street pans out with 80% of the people that are supposed to be in it next year I will probably run open. James, Tim R, Alan, Matt W, The Loos family, the guy that moved here for the last event (sorry cant remember his name), with my sister and I also think the class that would be a ton of fun. ( sorry if I missed someone that is running) It would be awesome to race straight time, but for the past 2 or 3 years there hasn't been anyone in my classes to race against.

[tehmaxfactr]

I'm not committed to autocross enough to buy a car because it is the best in that class or is less expensive to build to the edge of the rules.

In my opinion you have one of the most competitive platforms for CAMS, even with the induction of the Corvette to Cams. You just need a set of good tires and you will see massive improvement.

[BFisch06]

I'm not committed to autocross enough to buy a car because it is the best in that class or is less expensive to build to the edge of the rules.

In my opinion you have one of the most competitive platforms for CAMS, even with the induction of the Corvette to Cams. You just need a set of good tires and you will see massive improvement.

Thanks! I have a new set of wheels for this year and will moving to 200 treadwear as well. That said, CAM didn't exist when I bought the Sky and most people recommended a Miata or S2000, but I bought it because I'm a GM fanboy and liked the platform. I'm excited to see what CAM is like for me this year.

[tehmaxfactr]

I believe there is a class where every car can be competitive. I say this owning a Fiero, sooo lol.

[teamking]

Brad,

Finishing third in PAX class makes you the third best driver in BRR for the year, IMHO. For that, I think the club should find a way to reward you (again, IMHO).

I'm sorry to hear you'll be leaving the PAX class. It's unfortunate that you are put in a position where you have to choose.

Think about it, at every event, we print out a sheet that sorts the drivers by class, then time. And another sheet that sorts all the drivers by PAX (and the top PAX driver of the day gets a cone-- even if he/she is not in the PAX class). I think we should do the same thing at the end of the season.

[teamking]

I believe there is a class where every car can be competitive.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Evelyn Beatrice Hall

[rschumin]

Brad,

Think about it, at every event, we print out a sheet that sorts the drivers by class, then time. And another sheet that sorts all the drivers by PAX (and the top PAX driver of the day gets a cone-- even if he/she is not in the PAX class). I think we should do the same thing at the end of the season.

So here is how that would have sorted out for this season. I assigned championship points to your overall PAX finish at each event

Driver points
WILL KING 56
JAMES KOINER 51
GARY KRICHBAUM 35
BRADLEY FISCHER 27
BROCK CLAYTON 24
TIMOTHY J RUSSELL 23
SAMUEL DOUGHERTY 22
STEFFEN CLARK 22
RAYMOND SCHUMIN 19
HEATH MAXEY 17
ANTHONY HODGES 16
CLIFF PALMER, JR. 16
TIMOTHY MAXEY 13
TIMOTHY WINDLE 10
STEVE HINTON 9
ALAN GRANTHAM 8
DAVID MILLER 8
ERIK STROCK 8
HENRY LEHMANN 8
KEVIN BOWMAN 8
LARRY BOWMAN 8
MARCY CAMPBELL 8
MICHAEL LOOS 8
MICHAEL SHIELDS 8
MOLLY THORE 8
RACHEL FISCHER 8
ROB LESLIE 8
CURTIS APGAR 7
JEFFREY ELMORE 7
RON DAVIS 7
BILL GRAVES S R 6
DAVID CLEMENS 6
NATHAN PETERSON 6
ZACHARY CLEMENS 6
BERNARD MARSH 5
CHRISTOPHER SALZMAN 5
DAN MCQUAIL 5
ED FISCHER 5
GEORGE PARASKEVAS 5
RONALD K SALLADE JR 5
SETH MOYERS 5

[hemitud]

At least I finished in the top 14...ha

[tehmaxfactr]

Sounds like everyone ,but me, wants to keep things the way they are. Some even want to add trophies to the ones we already have. I would be in support of a top and runner up in overall pax time and overall raw time.

[diggles240]

Sounds like everyone ,but me, wants to keep things the way they are. Some even want to add trophies to the ones we already have. I would be in support of a top and runner up in overall pax time and overall raw time.

I would be fine with a new structure.

I do agree that we should award overall raw and pax for the year. I am not sure how people driving different cars throughout the season needs to be accounted for.

[tehmaxfactr]

I do agree that we should award overall raw and pax for the year. I am not sure how people driving different cars throughout the season needs to be accounted for.

I am not sure why it would matter what car was being driven if you were going for top raw time (ie doesn't matter what kind of car/cart it is) or top pax which "is supposed to be equal".

[fspmx6]

First of all, thanks to Ray for getting this started. It's great to have this debate.

As I read it, there seem to be two constituencies that the board needs to be listening to. One group of people is aiming to keep things the way they are by maximizing accessibility and fun. And the reward at the end (a trophy) keeps them coming back for more. Valid points.

Another group wants to make things more competitive and reward the top drivers for being the top drivers. I'll point out that it hardly seems fair that James, Brock, and Brad aren't getting trophies because they chose to be in a competitive class.

So, I'll say that I like Ray's proposal. But perhaps there is a way the board can have its cake and eat it too.

I propose that we keep the existing class structure, points structure, and trophy systems as is, and ALL CARS will run in their base class (e.g. B Street for me). At the end of the year, each base class awards a trophy to the top driver (assuming there is at least one qualifying driver).

In addition, EVERY driver ALSO runs in one of the index classes as appropriate (Novice, Ladies, PAX, and maybe Tire). At the end of the year, each of the index classes awards one or more trophies.

With that, the fun constituency gets their trophy at the end of the season; while the competitive constituency gets to find out who the best driver is without forcing people to choose to enter a competitive class while risking not getting a trophy. If we want to make some trophies bigger or shinier than others, or one gets a jacket and another gets a plaque, those are all details that can be worked out. Also, we might want to consider whether a different points system might be appropriate for an index class that might have 100 participants. Again, a minor detail. Finally, I question whether a Tire class is needed at all, given the prevalence of street tire classes these days.

Good luck to the board making a decision on this. Clearly, we want to promote fun and participation. But in the end, we are racing-- we are there to compete. Hopefully, this proposal allows us to improve the program in both ways.

This sounds like a good compromise in the current system. Though there is an argument for the tire class for people from sm/ cam/ prep/ who aren't eligible for an ST class due to modification. I don't know how many people that is, and if it's worth keeping for only 1 or 2 people.