Novices

[teamking]

All,

Maybe this is a dumb idea, and maybe it's been brought up before, but I just feel the need to say my thoughts. So...

I think that novices should be assigned and instructor that signs off when they think they are ready to drive on their own. Maybe that's after their first run, maybe it's after their 5th event.

Advantages:

1. Safety, obviously.
2. Competitiveness. With an instructor, the novice will learn more quickly and get faster faster.
3. Retention. Building bridges between the "old guard" and the next generation has got to be a good thing.

Disadvantages:

1. Manpower.
2. I can't think of any others.

Again, apologies if this has been brought up before.

[Devilsword]

I have offered many times to do walks, and ride alongs. Yet sometimes its hard to break through a ego. After the last events multiple safety concerns involving novices(false start almost leading to a collision,a few incidents while cone chasing) and some lost souls on course it think this is a great plan. Honestly i wish I asked for help when i first started and seriously regret it now.

[Scott]

All,

Maybe this is a dumb idea, and maybe it's been brought up before, but I just feel the need to say my thoughts. So...

I think that novices should be assigned and instructor that signs off when they think they are ready to drive on their own. Maybe that's after their first run, maybe it's after their 5th event.

Advantages:

1. Safety, obviously.
2. Competitiveness. With an instructor, the novice will learn more quickly and get faster faster.
3. Retention. Building bridges between the "old guard" and the next generation has got to be a good thing.

Disadvantages:

1. Manpower.
2. I can't think of any others.

Again, apologies if this has been brought up before.

I think this is a wonderful idea and should be added to the 'supps" when signing up for an event. It should be mandatory, not an option. I am more than happy to volunteer my time as an "instructor".

[diggles240]

All,

Maybe this is a dumb idea, and maybe it's been brought up before, but I just feel the need to say my thoughts. So...

I think that novices should be assigned and instructor that signs off when they think they are ready to drive on their own. Maybe that's after their first run, maybe it's after their 5th event.

Advantages:

1. Safety, obviously.
2. Competitiveness. With an instructor, the novice will learn more quickly and get faster faster.
3. Retention. Building bridges between the "old guard" and the next generation has got to be a good thing.

Disadvantages:

1. Manpower.
2. I can't think of any others.

Again, apologies if this has been brought up before.

I agree Will.

As you stated, safety is most important at any event. Perhaps a ride along should be required until the SSS of record gives approval for solo runs. We do not want to turn people away, but we need to ensure everyone is safe and a ride along after a moment could be too late. I know I asked for numerous people to ride along with me when I started (and still do at times).

I believe we can manage the manpower issue.

Just my 2 pennies...

[tehmaxfactr]

I generally ride with two or three people an event . At every event I go to for instruction. I think it should be mandatory as well .

[rschumin]

So I posted the on the BOD forum in June where it it didn't generate many comments or interest. Perhaps that was the wrong place and the wrong time. Maybe here and now will be better. I know that this is copying another club's method, but a good idea doesn't care who has it first. The beauty of this is that it is relatively easy to do and should have a positive impact on safety.

As some of you may know, Tidewater SCC had an “incident” at their May event. A novice (first autox) got badly off course and ran into another car. There was an airbag deployment and some bent sheet metal, but thankfully no injuries. In response they came up with what I think is a great procedure for novices. I wanted to share that and get everyone’s thoughts about it.
1. Participating in the novice walk through is mandatory.
2. The novice drivers get a big yellow sticker on the upper corner of the windshield.
3. Novices must have an experienced instructor ride along on at least one run. It is up to the instructor to decide when the novice is safe to run solo. Might be after one run, might be after two or more. When the instructor is comfortable that the novice can find the course, then then he/she signs the yellow dot and the novice can run solo on subsequent runs.

I like this for two reasons. The safety aspect is obvious, but there is a customer satisfaction component as well. Making sure novices stay on course and have a fun first experience increases the probability that they will return for future events.

I don’t think this would be too hard to implement if we think it is a good idea.
Ray
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[diggles240]

All good points Ray. I believe we, as a club, need to take every preventive measure possible to have a safe and fun event for everyone.

I was not aware of the 'incident' you mentioned, but it serves as proof of what could happen.

I have a few thoughts:
1. In addition to a website and facebook post, the guidelines you outlined should be re-reviewed before the novice walk thru starts.
2. Also, I think the SSS of record or Henry should be notified that the instructor has signed off on solo runs.

Another point to consider is the course workers. There were two instances at the last event that could have turned out badly if it were not for the experienced drivers (Rob and Jay) that had to abort their lap because of someone shagging cones. I do know that it was a pucker moment for me, as SSS for the event, when it happened. Brad and Rachel do an excellent job of making sure there is always an experienced person at each worker station, but this is not always possible with the run groups, etc. I am not sure of the best way to solve this, but cones need to be reset as quickly and safely as possible. But, the emphasis should be on safety. Drivers will get a re-run if a cone(s) cannot safely be reset before the next car.

Again, this is reasonable to implement and does not need to be over complicated for all participants.

[diggles240]

For reference and additions from BLUE RIDGE REGION SOLO STAFF DESCRIPTIONS :

BRR SOLO NOVICE COORDINATOR

The Solo Novice Coordinator has the primary responsibility of mentoring novice solo drivers and has the following responsibilities at BRR-SCCA solo events:

1. Work directly with the Solo Safety Steward to ensure novice drivers comply with solo event safety regulations.
2. Work directly with the Solo Event Chairman to ensure novice drivers comply with any solo site regulations.
3. Ensure novice drivers have a clear understanding of the run/work order for the solo event.
4. Lead a novice course walk before each BRR-SCCA solo event.
5. Be available to assist novice drivers with ride-alongs during solo events.
6. Play an integral role in the annual BRR-SCCA solo novice school.
7. If the Solo Novice Coordinator is not able to be present at a Solo event, it is their responsibility to recruit a qualified replacement.
8. This position shall be filled by an SCCA member.

[tehmaxfactr]

I know at CCR they have a novice team of experienced drivers that ride with every novice and even take a run in the novice's car if they are really messing up. I help out when I can with the novices. I think Erik is our novice coordinator.

[Scott]

1. Participating in the novice walk through is mandatory.
2. The novice drivers get a big yellow sticker on the upper corner of the windshield.
3. Novices must have an experienced instructor ride along on at least one run. It is up to the instructor to decide when the novice is safe to run solo. Might be after one run, might be after two or more. When the instructor is comfortable that the novice can find the course, then then he/she signs the yellow dot and the novice can run solo on subsequent runs.

I think all of these are great and would be easy to implement and keep track of.

[Devilsword]

2. The novice drivers get a big yellow sticker on the upper corner of the windshield

Ray
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......./__|___\__
......(O)_ _(O)_|

I am a big fan of this. If possible i would love to see these stickers placed before or during tech. This would make easier to spot novices sooner and adjust my time to helping them.

[BFisch06]

2. The novice drivers get a big yellow sticker on the upper corner of the windshield

I am a big fan of this. If possible i would love to see these stickers placed before or during tech. This would make easier to spot novices sooner and adjust my time to helping them.

Could we use window-clings like the new-for-2015 annual tech stickers? They idea being that they would be returned at the end of the event for re-use in the future.

I'll bring this up now because I can see it being a problem: What happens if someone doesn't register as a novice and should have? Is it the registrar's job to look for unfamiliar names? It's nice to think that novices will make themselves known and ask for ride-alongs, but I know I didn't do either when I first started. It *seemed* easy enough....

[tehmaxfactr]

We need more annual window clings.

[diggles240]

Could we use window-clings like the new-for-2015 annual tech stickers? They idea being that they would be returned at the end of the event for re-use in the future.

I like this. When the instructor 'signs off' on solo runs, they can return the sticker to the trailer or SSS. At least then we can recycle them.

[BFisch06]

Could we use window-clings like the new-for-2015 annual tech stickers? They idea being that they would be returned at the end of the event for re-use in the future.

I like this. When the instructor 'signs off' on solo runs, they can return the sticker to the trailer or SSS. At least then we can recycle them.

Not quite... I'm afraid the clings will "magically fall off" during the event, putting us right back where we started. Maybe there's another cling the Novice Coordinator / SSS has to put next to or on top of the novice cling? Then they can both be returned at the end of the day.

[sinutz]

How about using green painters tape in the center of the windshield behind the mirror? We keep a roll of tape seperate from the others that are used for numbers so it is available when we need it?

If the corners or edges of the cling do not adhere they will peel off during a run. Tape will work the first time and it costs a heck of alot less with the same result.

[hklvette]

I like a lot of the ideas here. My thoughts:

-who gets to instruct? What criteria do they need to meet?
-on the other side, how do we determine who the novices are?

from a T&S perspective, being able to identify novices is great since it can reduce the number of red flags and allow us to give them a wider berth, so to speak.

Something I've observed is the desire to shorten and otherwise marginalize the drivers' meeting by people that have been in this sport for quite some time. I am concerned that doing so gives the impression to new-comers that it isn't important, which leads them to not pay attention and miss important information.

Another thing we should bring back: Rookie School. I know that I have not put a place in the schedule for it the last few years, but I am willing to correct that if members are willing to step up and help with it.

[rschumin]

Something I've observed is the desire to shorten and otherwise marginalize the drivers' meeting by people that have been in this sport for quite some time. I am concerned that doing so gives the impression to new-comers that it isn't important, which leads them to not pay attention and miss important information.

Another thing we should bring back: Rookie School. I know that I have not put a place in the schedule for it the last few years, but I am willing to correct that if members are willing to step up and help with it.

The driver's meeting is important, but it needs to be business like and efficient. Longer isn't the answer, being meaningful and informative is. I'm a big advocate of "sticking to the script" , saying what needs to be said, and getting a receipt of understanding from the audience. For that to work the script needs to be thought out and complete. I applaud Steffan's effort to update it.

Getting instructors and workers for the school became became such an onerous task that I stopped doing it. If there is support, I'm glad to start it up again.

[hemitud]

I love the rookie school idea and I think this is a great way to get to the Pulaski High School lot, as mentioned before. I think it was a great asset that Ray did and the club supported.

If we require a sign off from an instructor..what happens when other drivers from non BRR regions "assist"? Are they considered to be able to sign off, or must it be a BRR member?

[sjfehr]

2. The novice drivers get a big yellow sticker on the upper corner of the windshield

I am a big fan of this. If possible i would love to see these stickers placed before or during tech. This would make easier to spot novices sooner and adjust my time to helping them.

Could we use window-clings like the new-for-2015 annual tech stickers? They idea being that they would be returned at the end of the event for re-use in the future.

I'll bring this up now because I can see it being a problem: What happens if someone doesn't register as a novice and should have? Is it the registrar's job to look for unfamiliar names? It's nice to think that novices will make themselves known and ask for ride-alongs, but I know I didn't do either when I first started. It *seemed* easy enough....

TSCC requires all drivers to put the class on their car to pass tech- including the N for novices. This has helped catch a lot of gross classing issues in the past, and also helps identify novices. We hand the circle stickers out at the end of the novice walk-through, and verify in grid at the start of the heat that all the novices have stickers. Seemed to work well enough last event, aside from not having enough pens. One big issue is that this won't catch novices who do not self-identify; this catches >95% of drivers, though, and still helps mitigate risk even if it's impossible to completely enforce. We re-iterate the novice policy at the drivers meeting (Novice class mandatory if you have <4 events) and hold one more novice walk-through after the driver's meeting in case anyone missed the others. Speaking of which, that's another adjustment we made as of last month- giving 30 minutes between the driver's meeting and 1st heat for walk-throughs. I like it a lot, personally; gives AM workers more walk-through time, too, and fixes issues where people who show up late to tech/registration without enough time to walk the course.

TSCC BOD's position (upheld by each new board every year as long as I can remember and reflected in the supplemental rules on our website) is that riding along as an instructor with a novice or struggling driver does not represent an "unfair advantage," and is unrestricted. In years past we've assigned instructors as work assignments, but with 4 heats this year, have mostly just solicited volunteers to ride with novices. They don't have to be Evo-quality instructors, they just have to know where the course is. We try to limit it so people don't do more than 1-2 runs before their run heat, though it really depends how many novices are in 1st heat and how many volunteer instructors we have available.

[Scott]

I love the rookie school idea and I think this is a great way to get to the Pulaski High School lot, as mentioned before. I think it was a great asset that Ray did and the club supported.

If we require a sign off from an instructor..what happens when other drivers from non BRR regions "assist"? Are they considered to be able to sign off, or must it be a BRR member?

At least in the beginning of this process change for us, we should initally limit instructors to BRR members.

[Devilsword]

I love the rookie school idea and I think this is a great way to get to the Pulaski High School lot, as mentioned before. I think it was a great asset that Ray did and the club supported.

If we require a sign off from an instructor..what happens when other drivers from non BRR regions "assist"? Are they considered to be able to sign off, or must it be a BRR member?

At least in the beginning of this process change for us, we should initally limit instructors to BRR members.

To think we are as big as capital district when it comes to a pool of drivers who A. Have atleast a few constant years experience B. That want to instruct/help novices and C. Scca members is well silly. We are small enough group here in Virginia most of us know who is capable of taking on the role. Honestly i think it would be just as easy to have a safty steward to sign off on a novice instructor the day of the event or a week prior via the forum. I would hate to see a day, like the college challenge, where the novice group far out numbers the available instructors.

[tehmaxfactr]

At the CCR club they only have about 8 instuctors for usually around 200 people. I dont see us having a man power issue by only limiting the instructors to scca members. I think it is a good idea, I mean it is an scca club and if you have been driving for a few year you should have a membership........

[garyk]

I'm willing to help instruct (if I'm qualified).

[diggles240]

The SCCA/BRR membership would most likely be required from a liability standpoint.

Chris - I do agree with your point regarding the ability and knowledge of non-members though. It is just up to BRR to make this decision and coordinate with national.

I also agree with you Buckie - 'we' can make it work.

And, Gary - not sure if you are a member, but you definitely know your way around.

just my 2 pennies

[garyk]

I am indeed an SCCA/BRR member.

[Devilsword]

At the CCR club they only have about 8 instuctors for usually around 200 people. I dont see us having a man power issue by only limiting the instructors to scca members. I think it is a good idea, I mean it is an scca club and if you have been driving for a few year you should have a membership........

it doesn't always work that way. Technically i have been doing this for around 5 years. living in charlottesville, according to zoning, my friends and I should be making the 4+ hour drive to compete in the capitol district. At the time BRR was holding a few events a year in Verona at the top of there district. This limited the amount of events we could go to so to us it wasn't worth the investment. On the other side i live a hour from Richmond so i picked up a VMSC membership(though it may seem i have to pick up a scca this year after all the events i have done) Having a scca member card doesn't limit, nor improve my driving capabilities and its not like a novice can't pick one up before his first event. I think we are forgetting, we are not talking about instructing drivers to be fast, we are taking about instructing drivers to be safe on course. That is something a person minimal experience can do.

[tehmaxfactr]

I dont instruct novices to be fast, I try to make sure they complete the course in a decent enough time for them to be safe. You should check out some of the other discounts that an SCCa membership gets you. For instance if you also have a sams club membership you can print out a membership paper off the scca website to proof you have one and take it to Sams club and they give you a 25$ gift card. There are lots of other savings to be had with the SCCA card.
It does look better when you have members instructing novices, skill or no skill. If something happens and a non-member is instructing I am sure the first question is going to be " why is there a non-SCCA member instructing novices at an event?"

[sjfehr]

Everyone at an SCCA-sanctioned event is a member; even if they weren't when they drove up, they're required to get a weekend membership. For insurance purposes, is there a difference between annual and weekend membership? Or someone registered with BRR-SCCA vice ODR, WDCR, THR, etc?

[hemitud]

While correct that everyone is technically a SCCA member, the Safety Steward for the event is a BRR member in addition to an SCCA member and they are responsible for the safety at the event and if something should happen, they have to fill out the paperwork and explain the situation.

I will agree that there are many capable and experienced drivers that would more than qualify to help Novices find their way around and enjoy the event, and by all means please assist any novices. But from a logistics standpoint, I will say that a BRR member should be the responsible party for "releasing" a novice to drive on their own.

[diggles240]

While correct that everyone is technically a SCCA member, the Safety Steward for the event is a BRR member in addition to an SCCA member and they are responsible for the safety at the event and if something should happen, they have to fill out the paperwork and explain the situation.

I will agree that there are many capable and experienced drivers that would more than qualify to help Novices find their way around and enjoy the event, and by all means please assist any novices. But from a logistics standpoint, I will say that a BRR member should be the responsible party for "releasing" a novice to drive on their own.

^ Thanks Tim. I believe this is the best way to explain the logic/reasoning.

[fspmx6]

I fully agree and support the idea's presented here for a ride along instructor, stickers, ect. I am more than willing to fill in with the duties of instructor/adviser whenever I am in attendance in addition to any other duties I have. So long as I'm not chasing cones feel free to grab me to ride with someone and help them out.